Trans Day of Visibility: A Conversation with Marissa Stein

Marissa Stein is a Licensed Mental Health Counselor in the state of Washington (LMHC), an AASECT Certified Sex Therapist (CST), and a Nationally Certified Counselor (NCC). They are a non-binary, neuroqueer, kinky, and queer, Pagan, practitioner of magic, who lives with chronic pain and disability. Given these lived experiences, they have felt the impact of intersectional marginalization. As a white person, they do their best to be aware of their privilege and biases as part of dominant euro-centric descendant culture. Marissa endeavors to do their best to do anti-oppression work that is trauma aware as they believe every person deserves to enjoy their life free from shame and oppression. They strive for cultural humility, and to be an accomplice in the continued fight against white supremacy wherever they can. 

https://www.taravenerysextherapy.com/ 

Transcript

Alex Iantaffi: 0:35

Hello and welcome to another episode of gender stories. I know I'm always excited, but what can I say I just get to meet the best people and I get to interview wonderful people that I know from other parts of my life. So today, I am elated to introduce to you Marissa Stein, a licensed mental health counselor in the state of Washington, an AASECT therapist and nationally certified counselor. They are non binary neuro queer, kinky and queer pagan practitioner magic, who lives with chronic pain and disability. Even the slipped experiences that found the impact of intersectional marginalization. As a white person Marissa does their best to be aware of their own privilege and biases as part of dominant Eurocentric descendant culture. They endeavor to do their best to do anti oppression work that is trauma aware and believe that every person deserves to enjoy their life free from shame and oppression. They strive for cultural humility, humility, and to be an accomplice in the continued fight against white supremacy, wherever they can. Thank you so much for making the time to talk with me today. And you have a podcast that you're about to launch soon. Right? Do you want to add what the podcast is called? Yes.

Marissa Stein: 1:52

So it's going to launch soon, I'm waiting on getting kind of the branding and production details finalized. It's called not fucking normal, because I'm not and I'm not gonna. Yep.

Alex Iantaffi: 2:04

And I think that's a beautiful segue, that we were actually going to talk about a totally different subject. I mean, we were going to talk about, you know, body image issues and disordered eating and gender, you know, because those are all things that we're passionate about. But when we got together before recording, we were like, the world is heavy, we're exhausted, we're grieving. This is not fucking normal. And yet again, you know, we're grieving the death of trans youth Nex Benedict, you know, and it's just, this is so heavy on our hearts, as well as all the other ongoing things that are going on, you know, witnessing multiple genocides and wars right now. And so we decided to actually just pivot and talk about what is happening in our trans, non binary, gender expansive, two spirit community and to talk about the impact of this ongoing systemic violence and grief on our life as therapists in the lives of the clients we serve were often trans non binary gender expensive to spirit themselves.

Marissa Stein: 3:10

Yeah. And in on that note, I feel like it's important to also just state that the land that I'm on while called Washington while called Seattle is unceded, Duwamish, Coast Salish Suquamish and Stillaguamish. lands. And like, you mentioned, this is not normal and like, and yet it is, yeah, it is normal. And it shouldn't be.

Alex Iantaffi: 3:42

And absolutely, and I think that because colonization is so normalized, cisgenderism is so normalized. Capitalism is so normalized. We're all trying to go through the motions and other know about you. But you know, and I live on Dakota Anishinabek territories, can we known as Minnesota, that right now, everybody I'm talking to, they're exhausted, their heart is heavy, you know, they, they're really just hanging on by a thread. But we're all like pushing through, you know, as if things were normal, but they're not. And so I'm wondering how that is showing up in your own life in the life of your clients if you are finding similar things where you are?

Marissa Stein: 4:24

Yeah, it's it's, I say interesting, a lot to not judgment on stuff is interesting. And I think there's that you know, that curses, may you live in interesting times and woof. And, you know, I, I go back to this, this idea of it's not that right now is we're dealing with more suffering than in, like past history. But the fact that we are so connected, we're dealing with this the way that we're getting our information is so destabilizing to our nervous system, if that makes sense. Yeah. That is not that is not for humans. It's not normal. And so what I am seeing is a combination of people who have skin in the game. Not being able to separate from what's going on, right. And people who don't, I mean it's the same old story, people who don't have the option of looking away to do more caretaking of themselves, because that is also necessary. But for those who are living in that consistent state of this is affecting my experience can't and so I struggle with this, I think about this a lot of with my various identities, I can't step away from identity, my identity and my trans identity. But I'm white. So I can like potentially easily step away when I need to, to take care of my nervous system, because I am white. And I like acknowledging the fact that that is a privilege to be able to do that. I can't with being trans being also what is labeled as neurodivergent, but I don't believe in neurotypicality at all. But that experience, I can't step away from that. And so this shows up in in my own personal work and work with other with clients who have shared but also different identities of recognizing that when we need to be able to find moments of safety, for our nervous system, to be able to be able to keep going. And if you're dealing with that, that continuous stress and emotional vigilance, it's more of a active, I have to find ways to do this and create a sense of safety, right? And then if you're not with somebody to living with the skin in the game thing, it is easier to be like, Well, I'm just not going to look at the news for a bit. Yeah, right. And it's easier to just, I'm just gonna go take a walk, and it's gonna be fine. But if you're in the state of like, this is actively affecting my day to day, it's more a matter of like, okay, I have to, I have to consciously set it aside to find some joy to find some sense of peace. So that's what I see showing up a lot for me and for people that I'm working with. But it's, it's it's just different, different experiences, depending on the identities that are shared, and the recognition that there's a lot of privilege in the ability to not have to, like put a lot of effort into trying to create that sense of safety. Does that

Alex Iantaffi: 8:03

That makes so much sense to me, you know, that makes sense? because I'm even thinking about, you know, some of the things I've seen about like, it's okay to rest, but rest is not retreating. Right. And so when I'm thinking about what you were talking about, I'm thinking about, you know, like how, yeah, similarly, I really have to make a call on, you know, the different intersections around power and privilege. And I need to make that conscious effort to know I need to rest I need to sleep, I also need to move this grief in some way to show up, right for my clients. And resting is not retreating is not switching off, right. And even when I'm resting, I can completely take this out of the equation, right. And I see it even thinking about, you know, Nex and Nex's family and community, they've really been on my heart and witnessing on social media, also a lot of indigenous folks, for example, saying, hey, Nex is like indigenous belonging and identity as a member of the Choctaw Nation is like being erased, right? Or is being weaponized. So kind of just lift up, you know, trans issues sometimes by organizations who haven't really put in the time to build relationship with indigenous communities and will still come from a very colonizing kind of perspective or benefit, you know, from the ongoing colonial settler project. And so, that is complex, because then I see my, you know, trans non binary gender expensive to spirit, indigenous siblings, it's almost like this, you know, double whammy of like, this is just more indigenous folks, you know, suffering in schools that already have a rendus legacy of systemic violence against indigenous folks. And this is not just the trans issue, this is them going legacy of colonialism. This is the ongoing legacy of our folks, you know, getting killed and murdered or just worn down but like systemic violence over and over. I don't know if that's where you were at some of the things you were thinking about as well or

Marissa Stein: 10:16

Oh, yes. Yeah, definitely. And it's like I feel like saying is like an on their land on their land. Absolutely. This is not European soil. No, this is not the descendant of European soil. This is you know, and I am I zero I have zero I mean they have two pronouns, they and he, and it sounds like Indigenous American ties at all when it comes to ancestry. And, you know, it's, there was something I was gonna say, but of course, oh, yes, yeah. Something that I that maybe some of those who are listening are aware of but doing and I'm just going to comment on the fact that AASECT itself, there's some it's not there's no perfection there I have had my own thoughts and feelings around whether or not continuing to be part of AASECT. But in going through the AASECT process of becoming a certified sex therapist, we have to go through the thing called a SAR, which is sexual attitude. reassessment, is that the assessment? Yeah. And, you know, it's, it was such a, I was lucky to take it from somebody who was Black, and to not get it from a framing from a like a white person. And one of the things that I loved the one I get to learn things that weren't part of my academic training, because none of this is part of the academic training overall, like it's not a focus, you have to kind of like go out and find it yourself. If it's important to you, you find it you can was the very idea that the term transgender is is a Eurocentric like colonizer term. And so people from all over the world who are not part of this, that culture, that's not a term that isn't necessarily even connected, because it's a colonizer term. So for trans people who are labeling two spirit folks, or gender expansive, depending on or not even gender expansive, just like living lives part of culture, and then say, oh, but you're trans. And I'm not saying like, I honestly don't know that much about Nex's background, other than the things that I have paid attention to, I do know that they're part of the Choctaw Nation, and I do know, you know, preferred preferred, but pronouns name, they did prefer he, that's what I'm hearing because also even with pronouns, I'm like, some of us have more than one pronoun. Yeah. So, I mean, all pronouns, you know, like, yeah, yes. If you only have one, but if you have more than one, you might have reference. Yeah, well, that's, like, that's the thing, I bring that up all the time. And I corrected myself here, because I'm in a place as being recorded. And I recognize how often I get corrected when I say, my, my preferred pronouns. And so I corrected myself because I didn't want to get that. But I have preferred pronouns depending on where I am, your safety. My, my preferred pronouns overall, are they them, but you know, what, I'm not in family that supportive. So I and I just I have chosen to not put energy towards that in my own family, because I just don't have the energy to deal with it. And so I asked my friends not to correct my family.

Alex Iantaffi: 14:01

And I think that's a great example of like, our lives are complex. And even when we talk about, you know, Nex and Nex's death, it is complex, and I've seen a lot of commentary on social media even because when the video came out, which I chose not to repost, because also tried to be really mindful about, you know, how much the trauma of minoritized communities is kind of used as trauma porn really are paying, replayed over and over and over. And I really thought is this footage that I need to share? And you can share it why and what's my intention? You know, what is it for, you know, and who is it for? And why, right, but I've seen so much social media commentary about this is right, or this is wrong, or you only use this pronoun to make life easier for his family, which I'm like, Yeah, we live complex lives. And so sometimes, we, you know, there is a relational dance, and who, you know, I'm not going to be there and judge it when I don't know, all the details and all the ins and outs and I think that's part you know, that needs to be part of the conversation because I think we all want you know, because of white supremacy, I think and colonialism and capitalism, some kind of neatly packagable kind of answers to this really big questions, but the reality is that we live complex multi issue lives. You know, and we need to be able to talk about our complex Multi issue lives in ways that are more nuanced. And I think that a lot of I don't know about you, but I know that I feel like a lot of folks sometimes want to make it a trans issue, you know, I'm like, No, this is a complex issue of the ongoing legacy of colonialism, the ongoing legacy of white supremacy. And we need to be able to talk about all of the things that can separate. Even that the way we conceptualize gender and sexuality is a very Western colonial way of conceptualizing gender and sexuality that doesn't fit neatly in other cultures, you know, and absolutely,

Marissa Stein: 16:11

definitely, and I, and I'm curious about your thoughts around. I mean, I watched the video as well. And I did not share it because of even the, and if, for those who are not familiar, it's the video, I'm assuming is the one where the being where he is being interviewed by the police,

Alex Iantaffi: 16:36

with his mom present in the hospital,

Marissa Stein: 16:39

but that alone, right there being interviewed by a police officer, that is that alone is traumatizing. I'm not sure if you've ever gone through that. But that is is traumatizing. And so that can like be looking at things from a harm reduction. I'm not saying that that shouldn't be shared, but it shouldn't be shared necessarily widely. By everybody without any, like some context of like, this is what you're going to be seeing consent around around that because other people who are who have gone through that the process, and especially those who who are already targeted by police, that can be a traumatizing thing to witness and to go through. But yeah, I probably I think I just went on a train of thought.

Alex Iantaffi: 17:34

That's okay. We can go on many paths, you know, we're both neuro spicy. So we go on some side quests today. But you know, as Yeah, I have so many thoughts crowding in my brain to right now in different directions that we can go to. But I think for me, it's like, I'm always, as you were saying that I was thinking about Yeah, I feel like there is almost this kind of belief that it's often coming from maybe folks with more historical privilege. They're like, Oh, this is so horrendous, if I share this, people will wake up because maybe this woke me up, right? Yeah. But I don't I truly don't believe there is any amount of trauma or violence that we can show people that will be enough to unsettle the systems, right. Right. Before jumping on the recording, we were talking about how there's so much rhetoric, for example, around protecting, you know, women and children, but like, which children are we protecting? Because we're obviously historically not protecting indigenous children? We're not protecting Black and brown children. In fact, I would say that for indigenous Black and brown children, there's almost an impossibility of being children under colonialism and white supremacy, right? We're not protecting trans kids. We're not protecting disabled kids. So when we're talking about children, really I would just talk about cisgender white, able bodied, moderately affluent children because actually if we were talking about all children, you know we wouldn't be we wouldn't be grieving yet another indigenous youth Yes, you know dying Yeah, this makes sense and other know if you have any additional thoughts Yeah.

Marissa Stein: 19:19

I mean, I and that's that's part of like I have additional thoughts and specifically in the way they interview went the recorded interview went with this a police officer was the way that next was interviewed. Was look again, it is looking for a reason why three cis girls would attack him right in a bathroom. And they were looking it seems to me like the police officer was looking for that that like water okay. Oh, well, that must that must be at then if you poured water on somebody then that invites it I'm trying not to bring up another story but this idea of if you're protecting your I'm gonna I'll state it. If you're protecting yourself from being bullied. And you've been consistently bullied for who you are. And you do anything to protect yourself. Yeah, right. And then that is seen as ah, well there you're the clearly the instigator and any amount of violence. Is is okay. Yeah. And, and

Alex Iantaffi: 20:38

realize person,

Marissa Stein: 20:50

It's protected white women in bathrooms, white women and children and bathrooms must be protected at all costs.

Alex Iantaffi: 20:57

And here's the cost, right? The cost is like a dead Choctaw youth.

Marissa Stein: 21:03

Oh, yes, a child, a child was

Alex Iantaffi: 21:06

A child who was harrased and not protected by adults.

Marissa Stein: 21:10

Yes. Right. Yes, in school. And not only that, but punished. Yes. He was suspended before he died for what happened. Yeah.

Alex Iantaffi: 21:21

Yeah. And I've seen it, you know, I have the, I feel very fortunate to believing in, you know, so called Minnesota that that is a trans refuge state. And I've seen trans and queer youth being harassed by not just their peers, but by adults or being punished for protecting themselves from the bullying and harassment of their peers, by adults. And this is like constant and, and at which point, we started saying, Hey, what is kind of what is going on? It's not normal, you know, talking about it's not normal for adults to like, harass like trans youth, you know, and children. It's not normal for adults to not protect children that are in their care during school time, right? But instead, we're trying to find reasons to keep upholding the same systems. Because if we say it's not normal, then we really have to question hang on a minute, what are we doing, you know, as a culture and society, so it's much easier to put on the individual, oh, he must have been doing something to provoke those girls, right? Must be his fault, right? Rather than like, oh, it makes sense that with this increased anti trans sentiment and all the rhetoric that's being skewed online and on social media and on TV, that those other children because they're also children that should be protected from this rhetoric, have internalized that it's okay to kind of abuse and be violent towards certain body minds.

Marissa Stein: 22:58

Yeah, and on that I have, I have, like, two thoughts, two thoughts to share there, because I'm also in a state that is seen as a trans refuge state that has also has a, you know, an indigenous population and in reservations, right. And to, you know, you step outside the bubble of the larger cities, and it's not safe for anyone who doesn't align with a colonized idea of gender. I think that sums that up, I think, hopefully, it's not it's not safe, even though there's more gender neutral bathrooms, because there's only one at service stations. But it does, like the safety is so safety, for whom, number one, and then also the safety is, is I feel like it's over estimated that absolutely. The exact word that I'm thinking, but I like as a person who identifies as agender. I don't feel safe. Advertising that in Seattle everywhere. Right. So that's, that's, that's one thing. And the other thing that I wanted to add to what you just said. I wonder, and I feel like I'm also missing there's something else I was gonna say. And I kind of, I think about things of like empathy comes up a lot, the idea of empathy and especially being somebody who has has been given the also colonized idea of being autistic, right, which is the idea of neuro divergence and neurotypicality is a very colonizer it's a Western psychological which the whole field is. Is is. fraught, and that's one of the reasons I'm starting my podcast is to talk about the fraughtness of the idea of normal Yeah. But the idea of empathy, it's really, like tricky, because people can't truly experience empathy unless they're connecting it to something in their own experience. Yes, that's what empathy is. It's not actually feeling what the other person is feeling. because we can't do that, but it's connecting with something in your own experience that brings that up. And so, you know, I want to like in this particular experience of what Nex went through if if I'm not sure I can connect with like white sis men on this, but if White ciswomen can connect with how it feels to be interrogated after speaking about a sexual assault, and the feeling of it being blunt, being blamed for it for any reason, the same, the same kind of experience that that Nex I mean, I can't speak exactly, because I have a job wasn't able to, you know, but I suspect there's a similar experience of anybody who is again being questioned, and needing to prove that they were harmed first. Right. Exactly. And that they didn't do something to instigate that harm. Yeah. Even if the harm that was like, when the harm comes back, that's even worse than the thing that you did. And why is that? You know, but it's just checking for anybody who happens to be listening, who was kind of on the fence about that, which I suspect anybody's listening to anything that we're putting out is not on the fence. But like checking, I would like how, how would that feel to be questioned? Of your experience? When you are significantly harmed? To be, you know, blamed for it?

Alex Iantaffi: 27:19

Yeah. And what would it feel like to be questioned and blame for something that is so systemic, right? Yes, something that you're experiencing every day, just as if you, you know, if you're a woman in this world, you're going to experience or read as a woman in any way, you're going to experience a lot of misogyny, you know, because, yes, again, complicated, nuanced topics, right. And then that's the everyday and then in this moment of acute crisis, right. And again, I can only imagine I can never understand what you know, Nex's experience has been through, is in terms of what he experienced every day in that school day in day out, and not just from peers, but from the adults around them. You know, and I think that it's so, you know, I was thinking about how we're getting close to Trans Day of visibility, you know, which I believe is March 31, every year, and I was really thinking about this double edged sword of visibility, you know, and how I've really, in my own lifetime, I've seen, you know, the visibility of our trans non binary gender expansive Two Spirit community really increase, but also how there is like, that increased visibility can also bring increased hate, increased pushback, increased violence, right? And I'm like, I am gonna, I think I'm gonna have so many feelings this year, when that says allies are gonna post about, you know, celebrating trans people, or trans day of visibility or, or, you know, and I'm like, Yes, and where, where are you when, you know, our young people need to be protected, or when somebody is picking on somebody from their gender, or when you're like, talking to your own peers and children about gender and reinforce kind of cisgender is colonial ideas of gender, right? It's just, it seems easy to be like, let's celebrate visibility for trans people one day a week, but then let's keep reinforcing the, you know, ongoing settler colonial state, where we are, you know, every day and but keep reinforcing cisgenderism every day and, does that make sense, it just, I almost feel like I have such a difficult relationship with visibility at the moment, and that you have visibility management, and just what as it's not bringing us increased safety is not bringing us increase rights in many ways. And you know, and I say that, as somebody who's chooses to be very visible as a trans person, so there's also paradox, right? I do see some benefits, so that visibility, but I also think about who's paying the cost of that visibility, and it's not going to be me with a higher level of privilege, right? Does that make sense?

Marissa Stein: 30:10

No, it makes total sense. And you have that Oh, definitely. I mean, I have right now x on my driver's license. And I my family is in most of my family's in Texas. And I kind of decided, well, I'm not going to go to Texas anymore. But my father turns 80 in April and my family has invited me to come and you know, see my father and I'm seeing where everything is going right now in this country. And it's never been safe, right? I am thinking of going and changing my driver's license back to F for my safety, because me showing my driver's license to TSA or to a police officer. I don't feel is making anybody safer. Right. That is already again, colonizer experience of even having these, these checkpoints and these things. I think we do need licenses to drive vehicles. But you need training or at least training. Right. But you know, there's so much to say about that. But something you you touched on, I think it's so important has been in my mind with a lot of things recently is that idea of a bottom up approach to trauma. Right. And so I think a lot of things and this is not this is more this is not a Western psychological perspective at all. This comes from indigenous wisdom. Yeah. Would have in touch on Maslow, and where he got his ideas, because that is that did not come from Europe, by the way. Blackfoot, I think I believe he was visiting a. And I may be incorrect with terminology, because it was in what is now called Canada. I think that was the story. In any event, the bottom up approach I'm thinking of is for, like, we can't look at this as like white allies or not white allies, cis allies. Saying this is gonna but this is I say, it's also works for white people, right? This is going to work with any kind of marginalized experience. But the allies saying well, cognitively, we just have to say you're safe, and we just have to talk about it. No, we have to create the safety, for it to be safe for people who are marginalized to be visible. We need a bottom up approach. And we don't have that right now. And that's why it's so troubling to see so many laws, especially aimed at youth.

Alex Iantaffi: 32:54

Yeah, absolutely.

Marissa Stein: 32:57

Because youth are a very marginalized demographic, they are seen as property of their parents. They're seen as not having any kind of actual agency. We, you know, it's okay to tickle your kids. Right. That's terrifying. Yeah.

Alex Iantaffi: 33:16

No, without consent,

Marissa Stein: 33:17

not without consent. Exactly. So and then we have the intersectional identity of not only are you a youth, but you are in a marginalized, you've been racialized. Yeah. And you have the generational trauma that is continued. It's not an end. It continued, and you're experiencing not only generational trauma, but in your own life, right? It's compounded. And then we have politicians making laws that making it unsafe to exist in the land, and in the land where you're living. And for those who cannot go to refuge states, they're just completely left out and the white the separate again, but it's mostly anyway, white, it's both it's white. Yes, if sis White is basically like we'll get to a state which you can't where you can.

Alex Iantaffi: 34:19

What, and that's such also a colonial mindset. Yeah. Because sure, uproot yourself, you're found right from your community. I think for me, when people say that, and I say that as an immigrant, who is like, you know, part of the Italian diaspora and been, you know, like, as chosen displacement, because of my own trans identity.

Marissa Stein: 34:39

I left Texas for reasons, yeah

Alex Iantaffi: 34:40

as well as economics, right. And so it's like, in to say that with all of that in the background, but even saying, like, yeah, just uproot your family, and, you know, from everything they've known and your relationship and your community, and go somewhere else, as if those relationships don't matter. Right. And so, I

Marissa Stein: 34:59

mean, that's what actually safety is. community should be safety. Yeah. But we need to create the safety in the community, but like, I mean, that it is just so it says, you know, Empire, settler, colonial settler, colonialism, whiteness. And I say that for anybody who is listening, who is not aware of this, it's not saying that people who have been labeled as white are sick. The idea of whiteness is sick the idea of race is sick.

Alex Iantaffi: 35:34

Yeah, because it's it's rooted in anti blackness, it's rooted in anti indigeneity. It's rooted in all of those things we've been talking about. And I feel this conversation could go on for a long time. And I want to be respectful of your time, because I know you've got clients and I'm like, you know, just kind of fitting in busy schedules as therapists, but I feel like I could have this conversation for a long time. I love that yeah, that we started from It's Not Fucking Normal, which is going to be your podcast. And our this episode is going to be available both on Gender Stories and your podcast platform when it's out, but maybe to kind of conclude our conversation like, we started by saying, we were going to talk about something else that we had to be real about what is present and true for us right now. How are you taking care of yourself so that you can show up for your clients? We're also right immersed in this moment. So where are you finding some rest and restoration so that you can keep re engaging in the work that we do every day?

Marissa Stein: 36:41

The thing that's most helpful for me is I take daily walks outside with my dog, and I have a friend who is a couple of doors down for me, who is also a therapist. She's a psychologist, and she works with kiddos. And we talk about things. In the evening, we kind of talk about what's been going on for us. And that has been the most beneficial getting out into nature, connecting with nature, connecting with friends, connecting with community and my my dog. Those were the things that that have been most helpful for me. Which shocked not not shocking, of course, that's what what helps, but it's and that is what I'm doing. I'm curious also, for you, what are you doing to help with self? Like, the term self care is such a loaded challenge? How are you? How are you nurturing yourself and taking care of yourself during, like this particularly interesting time?

Alex Iantaffi: 37:47

Absolutely. You know, making sure that I do the basics, like sleeping, drinking water, eating, which I know seems you know, but if I don't do that, then I'm not going to be able to show up, you know, very similar in terms of connecting with like nature, connecting with my family and community. My lovely animal companions, you know, because, and, and I love that whenever I talk to people, that is what holds us. Relationships, the web of relationships, that holds us which again, you know, zero surprise that we were always meant to be kind of in relationship. And so of course, you know, relationship with nature, relationship with self, relationship with each other. That's, that's where we find our rest and restoration, right? We're an interdependent species. But unfortunately, yeah, colonialism, white supremacy kind of really dehumanize us in this way. And part of the humanization is taking us away from those relationships.

Marissa Stein: 38:55

Well, I am just so grateful that even though I have a fraught relationship with technology, and a fraught relationship with AASECT, I am very grateful that both of those have brought me in connection with you.

Alex Iantaffi: 39:11

Thank you, and likewise, some. And for those of you who are listening who don't know what AASECT, actually is, it's the American Association for Sex Educators, Counselors and Therapists, which is how Marissa and I first kind of connected and of course, for technology because of distance. Well, I know that you have to go but I always ask all the guests, you know, is there anything that we haven't touched on that you are hoping to talk about? And I know we'll probably do another episode on the original topic we were gonna talk about, but is there anything else that you wanted to mention for today?

Marissa Stein: 39:44

I think I want to mention that as a final note, that it's so important to help support youth to feel safe to be who they are, who they truly are. Because that is what helps create healthy, connected adults. You know, that's,

Alex Iantaffi: 40:15

I love that.

Marissa Stein: 40:16

And so I don't work with many youth. I'm more focused on adults in the work that I do, but I work with a lot of adults who were not supported as youth. And it's an unpacking in a lot to trauma work, and so I am so invested in making sure that the importance of protecting marginalized youth continues to be like spoken about and we need to do we need to do better. We all we need to pay attention to other states and do better. Yeah.

Alex Iantaffi: 41:00

And we need to remember that, like, all young people are legacy as, as a species as a community, right for me, being brought up in a more collectivistic culture where all the children our children of the community. And so for me, I think what hits hard is like, we need to look at Nex and we need to look at all those children and think they are our children. Because as long as they think that and while also recognizing the differences, right, and the different legacies, but if we start to think of all this trans non binary gender expensive two spirit youth as our children, the indigenous missing and murdered kind of young women and young Two Spirit folks, they're our children, right? The young murdered black and brown kids, they're our kids, you know, that we need to come back to our humanity. I really feel that very deeply right now. And right now I feels sometimes we're so far from our humanity,

Marissa Stein: 42:00

a topic for another podcast, To be continued.

Alex Iantaffi: 42:04

To be continued. Dear listeners, thank you for being here. I know this was not an uplifting episode. And our hearts are heavy, and sometimes it's okay to be with the heaviness. But I hope that you feel a little bit less alone, and that we can at least connecting our grief. And thank you for listening for being here and for showing up in your communities and in your relationship, as best as you can. Until next time.