Gender Stories
Gender Stories
Graphic Journaling with Visual Artist Nicoz Balboa
Nicoz Balboa is an Italian visual artist, using his life events as inspiration for works ranging from painting, drawing, tattoo, to pyrography, graphic journal and sketchbook. He reveals his hopes, failures and successes in candid and, at times, excoriating work that is frequently both tragic and humorous. The themes of provocation and sexuality repeatedly surface in Nicoz’s work, as his oeuvre is firmly rooted in the tradition of transfeminist discourse.
website https://www.nicozbalboastudio.com/
substack: https://nicozbalboa.substack.com/
patreon: https://www.patreon.com/graphicjournalclub
Instagram: GenderStories
Hosted by Alex Iantaffi
Music by Maxwell von Raven
Gender Stories logo by Lior Effinger-Weintraub
Hello and welcome to another episode of Gender Stories. I know I'm always excited, but I am delighted to be interviewing a compatriot, I think the word is, Italian. Nicoz Balboa is an Italian visual artist, using his life events as inspiration for works ranging from painting, drawing, tattoo, to pyrography, graphic journal and sketchbook. He reveals his hopes, failures and successes in candid and, at times, excoriating work that is frequently both tragic and humorous. The themes of provocation and sexuality repeatedly surface in Nicoz’s work, as his oeuvre is firmly rooted in the tradition of transfeminist discourse. Bienvenido Nicoz, finalmente we finally meet after interacting online, it's so good to see you.
Nicoz Balboa:For me, it's like, as my if my daughter today were meeting Taylor Swift for me today meeting you it's the same. Sono molto felice!
Alex Iantaffi:Wow. I mean, that is high compliment. As somebody who also has a daughter was the Swifty. I feel like that's a very, very high compliment. Thank you. Yes, well, I feel the same. I love your beautiful work. I think you know, your beautiful art, your books, which really have a lot of your own journey. Right? Your graphic novels? I don't know, would you call them a graphic novel graphic memoir.
Nicoz Balboa:I, I, I call it maybe graphic novels in the more broad way. And sometimes, at least in Italian, I say autofiction. Maybe graphic memoir in English, I guess it fits. And yes.
Alex Iantaffi:Yeah, you have some beautiful two beautiful graphic memoirs are out, right, the second one is out, too. And so I'm really excited. Tell me more about why a graphic memoir, you're very open about your own journey. What inspired you to pull it all together into a graphic memoir?
Nicoz Balboa:I guess, some egoistic wheel of seeing the story was being told to read the book that I maybe would have liked to read before I started my transition before we even started my questioning. And so I always did some auto biographical. I don't know if it's the right word. That's the right word. Yeah. Autobiographical work, sorry, since forever. But maybe the thing is that has changed for Play With Fire. And then for transformer. It was that I wanted to tell my story, to repair something for myself. And in the meantime, I also wanted to talk about those things that I felt that I learned that I discovered that I been in touch or observations of while I was questioning my sexuality, and my gender and my identity. And I guess that a little bit more in each book. And hopefully also in the this one I'm doing right now. I wanted to mix. A story. But also I was thinking about if somebody that has this book and read the story, but never add a meeting, a connection with a queer person. I would like this person also to be taken on the journey of understanding the story and understanding what was I was talking about.
Alex Iantaffi:I love that and I'm so grateful for your stories because I think for me, I've read a lot of memoirs of trans people mostly in English in for me with your stories. There was a it was like a visceral connection, because it wasn't just about gender. But culturally, it felt so much closer to my experience. My heart were also mean you're a little bit younger than me but were the same generations brought up in Italy. And so for me, that was something that like, you know, I got goose bumps even thinking about it. I was like, Oh, this feels so much closer to my soul. That's the best way I can describe it. Because there is the cultural element that I think also, you know, we experienced gender through language through culture. And so for me, it was so important to see a story that felt so much closer to my own experience, my own way of thinking, my own emotions. Does that make sense? I don't know if you've got that feedback from other people too. But
Nicoz Balboa:I guess it makes totally sense because I, I live in France. And I've been living here for 20. We said before 23 years. And I realize that there is, even though in the in even in the same community, cultural origins, make also the way you approach certain things differently. And so, while they see, for example, in my work for my book of Playing With Fire, which is the first one of this series that has been translated in France, and I realize that there is a different way of talking about things, I guess that in Italy, I don't know why. But sometimes we are a little bit more elastic, a little bit more like, especially maybe we are from Rome. So we're like, oh, whatever, whatever. And so, sometimes, it can be a curse or a gift. Because when I was telling this story, I realized that for some things, they may be the fact of being Roman and ebbing, this wherever that can be translated, maybe can say a curse word on you can yes, you can. This is the famous "sti cazzi". See, this is like the Roman way. So like, I feel these but whatever or I want to change this, but other there is sun, I don't care to change. And sometimes it can be cool. But also like it, it's more difficult to analyze things because it's more sti cazzi. And so I wanted to keep this sorry, my English, to keep this lightness, this. Being lighter, being elastic of the Roman way of thinking and or telling the story. But in the meantime, I wanted to pass some infos but not taking myself too serious. And so to wrap up my my sentence, I realized this when I have feedback, especially from French people, because in Italy, people love the book, like the community of transsexual,
Alex Iantaffi:love the book.
Nicoz Balboa:They were very supportive. And I felt a lot strong community and especially for Play With Fire, I was able to travel a little to promote it in very cool space, even though it was 2020. And for Transformer, I couldn't manage to go a lot around. But in France, I realized that people were surprised the feedback where people love the book, but also like the fact that I could approach those themes also in a not serious way. That doesn't mean that it's not serious, but in a way it's it can be light and joyful, even when you tell about dramas or no dramas, but heavy stuff.
Alex Iantaffi:I think there's a quality culturally about where we can hold the heavy staff staff with some sense of humor still, almost like not tragicomic. But sometimes some moments are like, right, we can see, we can see the light side of even really heavy moments. I think that that makes a lot of sense. I also love in your work, the vulnerability. I think for a lot of trans masculine people often there is like such a ma How do I want to say that? But there's such a desire right to be seen as masculine and seen as a man, you know, and what I love about your work is that there is a vulnerability and masculinity that for me again, culturally feels much closer, you know, masculinity where we can cry, we can have emotions, we can be loud. It doesn't make us less of a man in air quotes. Whatever being a man means that Because that's not our identify, but I'm definitely on that end, right. But there was a difference. Am I making sense? I don't know if you feel that way or not. But yes, yes.
Nicoz Balboa:Totally. And yes, totally. And also, I come a long way because I, I had to come to term because in the beginning of my transition, for example, I wasn't so. So how do you say, so elastic, so
Alex Iantaffi:flexible? In Italiano? Yeah, no, yeah.
Nicoz Balboa:I wasn't so flexible. Because when I started my transition, I started and I was I went I came out. The day I started coming out the day I got the paper from the therapist that says, Okay, you can go to an endocrinologist and the testosterone until that moment, I didn't came out because I was afraid I try it but wasn't. And so when it came out, even though some friends close friends say to me, Oh, what a surprise number like they were expecting this, but when I came out, I was like, Okay, now I have to perform the male. And so I cut the hair. And I was like, okay, couldn't wear colors, or. And also, because the moment I came out, even though it came out very late in my life, in the moment I came out, I couldn't stand anymore. People who say, Oh, tell me ma'am, instead of instead of me saying, because he was too much building up. And then I was like, now it has to be this or nothing. And this was four years ago. And since that moment, I learned to my masculinity in the way you were saying, like, I even though now I know that if I dress colored, or in my way of talking, and when I'm the telephone, I got a lot of ma'am. And when I dress colored, or when people see me from behind, I said people say Excuse me, ma'am. And then I told Mr. Or, and, but now I don't care. Maybe because I now I own my masculinity. And also because maybe I feel comfortable. Thanks to the testosterone that got me to this point in which I feel good. And so even if somebody say, Ma'am, now I don't care anymore, because I'm not fragile in my masculinity. More like a Ken now. Yes.
Alex Iantaffi:But you have a lot of jobs, your work is not just beach. I mean, that's real. As an Italian, I was like, Yes, I would like to work Beach, please. Like, it's like, I would like to be on the beach in the sunshine, rather than in an office most of the time. I love that. But I think that's true for a lot of people, as we get more comfortable in our own gender, then we're less influenced by the outside world and the expectation of like, you should perform masculinity in this way. Which also changes you know, like, I feel like as I got older, my masculinity also changes which makes sense, you know, like the, that that's happening and I'm just curious about whether you knew you notice how your gender expression changes when you're in France versus when you're in Italy? As you're getting a little bit older, you know, you're in your 40s still, but you know, do you feel that changes the way you express your gender as well or
Nicoz Balboa:I guess that now I allow myself to be more feminine. Like doing the because I first thing first, my very first approach to how to understand my gender come from you. So I know that quote, and this is the place that we know what what we're talking about. But sometimes I can allow myself to be more Yes, more manly and not performing and I'm in society when I'm in Italy or when I'm, but I also like to play with this this way of expressing masculinity, especially with a little bit more tough, or but it's also a game. So I don't know if I change my expression or my, my way of approaching the expression between Italy or France, I don't think that I change it by the place. But what I realized is that I have changed the way I interact with people, especially. I know that, for example, when I'm in an office, or I don't know, I wish somebody control my papers when I was read, read femme how do you say, female.
Alex Iantaffi:Oh, yeah, feminine, feminine.
Nicoz Balboa:I could be "Oh you want to give me a ticket, I'm sorry, i can't understand." And I use that the so much, I guess maybe it's the fault of patriarchy, because we assume when we are read as female, we are less threatening and more accepted and more eager to be held to when we present fragile, but in some way I use this, when I transitioned and my expression of change changed. Sometimes I did this, and I realized that the the effect on the other people was the opposite. Because it was read as female, and it was like, I'm sorry, all the doors open. But when you are readers as male, I often I have the sideburns and and I'm like I'm sorry. And so people are like, Oh, this is a male, feminine, almost sexual, or I don't know. And they are very more.
Alex Iantaffi:Yeah, even more mature masculine
Nicoz Balboa:closers. Yeah. And, at least for me, I don't know not not speaking from any anyone. But in my case, I realized at least I realized that I couldn't use the same way of interaction, even the being polite. I couldn't, I have to switch. This is the things I have to switch. And to finish, I can also add that in some way. By this week, I had the idea to open an account in the Postal Service anyway, some paperwork in France, and I did it. And then I, I did something wrong. And I needed to admit, I need that sorry to change this anyway. And so I was at the telephone with a tech guy. And I, since I needed my paper to do this. So I was I met as mme because my paper and I realized, now I'm some kinda get used to the being read as male privilege. Or I don't know if it's a privilege, but in a way is the way of people talk to me when they are men. And it's, I'm doing some technical things. When the men read me as a man, they're like, Okay, I can help you. Yes, it's like this, you got this. And when they read this female, it's like, it's not like this. You have to go there and do these. And I'm the same person. Yes, the person sees a female, so they don't know what they are, they are doing. This is a little bit shocking, not shocking, but it's fastidiosa Si?
Alex Iantaffi:It's really annoying when you can, si, fastidosa so knowing that's a good way to put it. That is so true. Like how I'm read really changes so much. And also, if I'm read, you know, am I being read as a lesbian? Am I being read as a man? Am I being read as a gay man? You know, when I remember once doing a trip when my daughter was small with one of my partners is like six foot seven, and we I went to check in at the hotel, and they were like, Oh, yes. And, and you're traveling with your family. Where's your wife? And I was like, it's it's the tall six foot seven British man over there. That's my wife. And the person was like, what are what is happening right now? And I'm like, exactly. I feel like that is my life. What is happening right now. Like I confuse a lot of people because my gender is just tends to be really fluid and my sexuality also, it's really confusing to people, you know, they often expect me to have a femme partner, which I don't as somebody who's mostly attracted to masculine folks. And so yeah, it gets really confusing, I think for people.
Nicoz Balboa:it's, it's so fun because, for example, my Yeah, daughter is, she's going to be 15 next week, and I've been traveling with her since she's two months old. We've been everywhere. And also we traveled to the States when she was like five years old. So I never never never had any problem me passing the for example, the check in counter with a kid, when I was read as female, I was like, okay, and this it was maybe last summer or last winter anyway, I was traveling with air. And when we arrived at the at the gate, I gave the paper and then before I gave the paper, oh, maybe my daughter gave me the paper anyway, I know that the asked they asked us the land or stairs, the one who check the paper and make make you go on the plane. So me, so read me as male with a teen, young girl. Yeah. And she went to my daughter, and she said, okay, and where is your? Where is your mom? Er, or where is your mom or something like this? And it was the very first time that this happened that she was checking if all was and I was like, I am the mom. Because I say in French there is you genderized the . in Malmo, it's me. It wasMr. Mom, it's me. Because she called me Mama. So it was fun. It was like, Okay, no problem.
Alex Iantaffi:It's very true, because I think they're watching out for trafficking and all that which, while I can understand what they're doing, I've had similar experiences where when I'm with my, especially when my daughter was younger, like I remember being at Disneyland, for example. And she was younger, and she wanted me to go into the bathroom with there. And I was like, Sure, I can come to the accessible bathroom with you. Because it was very overwhelming indoor, lots of people. And one of the people check in there was like, you can't go in and I was like, she came out of my body. She wants me to go in with that I'm going in right now. Like, you're not gonna start. And my kiddo was so confused, like what is happening, and she was like six or seven, I think at the time, and I was like, I'll explain later. And then later, I explained, I was like, I was being bred of a different gender, and they were worried that was a threat to you. And that's definitely been a few other moments when we travel where it's like, it is very different when you travel, like appearing more masculine with a femme kid or with a daughter. It's a very different experience. And there's so many things I want to talk to you about. One of the things that I love that you do is you keep your own graphic journal, and you also teach people how to keep a graphic journal, right? And I'm bringing this up, because I feel like a lot of your experiences both in the world, but also inner experiences, like emotional experiences, you find this beautiful way of putting visually in your graphic journal. So do you want to tell the listeners a little bit about this practice that you have on the graphic journal?
Nicoz Balboa:Of course. So the beginning of this graphic journal, I always, always always add a journal and also always had this practice of making comics out of my life. But in 2011, I bought this marvelous moleskin agenda planner. And I, I had bought this one day planner. At the beginning my my idea of a project was having, making, doing no one self portrait today, one page one self portrait for one year, and my idea was putting it on a blog and I wanted to call it "one poor self portrait a day, a way to learn to love myself and find a new husband" this was my idea.
Alex Iantaffi:What happened instead?
Nicoz Balboa:It's not. And what happened instead is that since day one, I couldn't contain myself. I'd been recently diagnosed with ADHD, which is not a surprise but and I'm seeing some somebody once a month to keep up with this. I'm not medicating but just to talk about this anyway. And so I probably when I, I couldn't manage to only put one drawing a day I wanted to. And so I start doing this. Every day, I draw and write all I did in this in this day. It was not so not in narration, not self. Emotion, narration of the emotion just the day. And I keep these every day for maybe three years. And I put this on a blog, they, you can see, see it. It's like this blog is called https://nicozgoeswest.wordpress.com/. And the majority of those things are there. And then also this became a book called vault Palooza all the out in Italy. Anyway, and, and I started doing this and I started giving from 2015 I did the workshop for just self narration. And I could and I would explain and show to people who come out other artists, keep up with self narration, travel journal, recipe journal and everything's and back during the pandemic. So, two, four years ago, what happened, it we were everybody was in lockdown. And we were very scared and very like this. And I had this practice of keeping a graphic journal, but in a way of more like drawing fears, drawing dreams, drawing dreams, not in the nighttime, you know, through goals, all sorts of things. And I realized that I felt very good that I didn't have to keep up with everything I bought these I slept at 9pm Just like I felt these and all these kinds of things. And so I started gay giving classes for people in lockdown like me on Zoom. And so we got there on the Zoom. And we started at the beginning it was a lot around yes drawing are we draw are we can narrate and we use a lot book by the genius Linda Barry, which is a cartoonist make characters Genius Grant winner, I guess. And she has this way of keeping up with a journal. And she drew a cross on a page. And she put a timer and she said, Okay, you have five minutes total. And you in one section of this four section that you create on your page by creating this writing down this cross. And in which you write down what you did, what you saw what you say, and something like this. And so the first maybe two or three times we met, we we used to meet once a week, I guess for like the first month because it was the pandemic. And then I realized that for me what was more important wasn't what I did, what I eat what I say but what I feel, what I want to feel, what I'm afraid to do to feel twice a month, then I started doing this. And then after one year, I close it down to once a month. And what's happened during the class we have every month to one hour and a half, sometimes two hour club class around the theme. And during this class we investigate what we feel. We draw, we write, sometimes people cry and it's very good because I'm a Cancerian and when somebody cries it's very good emotions. And yes, I hope that I answered. You did and I love detail, don't worry and I also am late diagnosed with ADHD. So we can go down all the side quests we want. It's all good. That is our interview, we can do whatever we want. Parenthesis over. Like I don't even know in English. I like the English I like how people with ADHD say side quests, parentheses, parentheses. We can do all the side quests we want. And I think what I love about the graphic journal, if I wonder, like, was that a big part of your own gender exploration as well? Of course, it looks like it but does it feel like that? What also enabled you to explore your own gender through that means? Yes, and it's, it's fun because when I I, during the pandemic, I started the consulting with therapist, not a gender specialist because I'm living in a very small town and there were there were there are still no gender specialist, but with a therapist since December 2018. And I started transitioning somewhere 2020 So during this time, it was a lot of inner inner work. And it was also the moment I was drawing my book, play with fire. And so it was fun because I started this book because I just wanted to talk about my coming out and my sexual sexuality, orientation, sexuality. I wanted to talk about this, this was the book or just talking about this. But in the meantime, and it's fun because I in some, you can see it in this play with fire. The first part is very, like it's a story. And then it become an inner dialogue with drawings and consideration. So the last fall, part of the book was writing down my researching inner researching about this, and, and then do in 2020 It was fun because I was doing this self future self for me. So, okay, well recommend a future meme, meditation or sense. And meditation. I don't remember with who it was something I was listening, but I don't remember the certs. But I was like, it's for two future you that come to you and you see yourself in five years or something like this. Then I drew, I wrote down and I drew my future self. And it was fun, because I found these few days ago. And it was like me now. That's amazing. A little bit more air, or since I'm balding, but anyway, we don't care. But and so it was fun, because I use it as drawing as a way of experimenting in the narration but also in the graphic journaling, practice. Yes. So the two coexist the my the one that goes outside and also the one that is just for me, and and then when I started in meditation, the meditation, no way is a sort of meditation. But I wanted to say I started the transition, which is a sort of meditation. I started keeping this graphic journal, journal.
Alex Iantaffi:You speak so many languages? Nicoz, I don't think you need to apologize. This is like, you know, your first language is Italian you function in French every day. And now I'm making you do this interview in English. I think you're good. No need to apologize.
Nicoz Balboa:Anyway, I started keeping this graphic journal. And I posted this on my moleskin Instagram account, which is a mom and moleskin journal. It's a contraction of the two. And I call the two I archive did with the hashtag sleeping in a binder because I did this drawing of me sleeping with my binder completely in compress at the end. And so I started drawing all all that app and I started I guess that a lot of people do this like feeling the need of reporting or not, do you see in English for reportage documenting document,
Alex Iantaffi:document, document,
Nicoz Balboa:their transition. But maybe it's a generational things I couldn't manage to doing, for example, on YouTube, or on as a lot of young people may do with picture. And so I did this by drawing, and this body of work of graphic journal. So it was like very instinctive. There were like, I feel it, I leave it, I write it, there were no rewriting just, I'm feeling it, leaving it, I put it on paper. And I posted on this account, which is a little bit more private than my Nico's Balboa main account. And back, then I use, I use this body of work this, all this content to rewrite my book transformer. And in this case, I use this as two to relieve the emotion to realize that the milestone are the things I did. But then I turned it into my book, my graphic novel. And so I needed to rewrite and change a little bit the timeline. But yes, these the exploration of identity and graphic journal were like this.
Alex Iantaffi:Yeah, that makes sense to me. And I also love how much you know, I love a lot of your images, and then a lot of your images as well, there is like a feel, and maybe I'm wrong, but you tell me. But I feel like that, you know, your inner world dream world is very important. But also there is an element of water sometimes with like the gender fluid mayor, people, you know, know that. So tell me about water, and your relationship with water as the water being I want to know, I've been wanting to ask you this question. Because if you know, and it almost feels connected, because I feel like dreams, some, in a way bring us to this very fluid watery place where there's possibility. So I don't know. I'm just curious about whether you Yes, what that means to Yes. And
Nicoz Balboa:you are so right, this code this connection with water? And it's funny because I didn't realize it. For example, yes. Like in the play with fire there is all these parts of the narration in which the character is female, and questioning their sexuality and then there is this matter of I have to just jump in the water, but maybe not. And then there is the scene in which the character jumps and feels like suffocating. And then there is this fish that comes and say, just learn to swim and not to bore us with your Cancerian stuff. And then the book also finished with and then there is a lot of consideration allowed around the mermaid, like the character says, Okay, what is gender? And at that time, I didn't know that mermaid is a symbol of trans Ness, I could Id No. And so and the character say Okay, so are those the genitals that do the gender so if I see a mermaid that has no genitals, but I can really tell she's a female mermaid, the moment so Merman. So what, what, what sold this, and then the end of the book, the character jump in the sea, and transform in a in a mermaid, we don't know. It's like questioning about gender, but we don't know the end of the book. And so the book after start with a guy with a mustache, which is a wishful thinking, because I don't mind a cancer and to grow a mustache, but anyway, but my character in the book as a mustache, because it's my book, I do what I want. Exactly. The character is on the couch, and he fell asleep watching Garmadon. And there is the song Who tells your story. And then there is this mermaid that comes to say, who will tell your story and the book and the book restarts? And it's fun because so I made this little resume of the water in the narration, but it's fun because so I had a lot of work around mermaid beach. And there is this series called meme trunks. And, and the funny thing is that I used a lot, the mermaid, the under the water and all the things. And in September, I started painting a new series. And I didn't realize but I started this painting. I'm calling this new perimeter, I guess. And because it's about my body now as a new perimeter as change, I got the top surgery one year ago, so there is a world new experimentation of how my body feels. And sometimes I like or sometimes I'm like, I like in the in the bathroom and maybe my partner enter and I take the the sugar man or seal the towel, the towel and it goes like and I my boobs and then I like, oh, no, I don't have okay. So I started this painting of the new perimeter. And it's still a series of self portraits underwater. And I didn't realize that it's connected. But it is in some way because it's like, I guess I love so much swimming. I love being it's not like screaming but I love like, I feel like Forca
Alex Iantaffi:seal I think seal
Nicoz Balboa:this year. For me, it's the best animal because I feel like it because it's an animal that doesn't run very doesn't run at all on the land is not very fast on the land like me, I'm not very, but once underwater is very gracious. And but it's not a fish. It's a mammal. Anyway. And so I hope that I answered that. But I guess the I am also like it's very beautiful to see image of underwater scene, I feel very satisfying.
Alex Iantaffi:Now, I love the water. And so I love all those images of their people. I really think you tap into some collective imaginary even when you didn't know yet. And you know, my mom is from Sicily. So from an island, so I was brought up around a lot of water. So I'm like, Yes, I love all that water imagery. Yes, it's just so beautiful. And, and you bring that like you also tattoo some of your mirror people, which is really exciting. And, and we haven't really talked about your tattooing work. But I am really curious because, you know, we're both Gen Xers you know, we're both Gen X. And I don't know about you, but growing up in Italy, like when people thought I was a girl tattoos were not really a thing where I was pretty edgy. When I first got my girl my first step do you know my mom was like, oh my god, what have you done? You know, and now like, I was covered in them, you know when we go to the seaside, but it's like, how did you come to your journey as a tattoo artist? You know, and it's like, like I said, maybe your experience was different, but definitely there was like a little bit of like, frowning upon tattoos for girls again in air quotes when I was growing up in like the 70s 80s You know, I mean, I know you're a little younger than me. But yes,
Nicoz Balboa:no, but it's like very same for example, the first I got in the 90s when I was at retail, the ice ice snow small tattoos. And then when I finished high school i i got this forearm that too, and my mother didn't knew about this so I was always like with long sleeves covered up. My mother was you're not odd. No, I'm okay. I'm very good. And and then I got sick in July. So I got the twins during the winter in July I got sick with how do you call mononucleosis
Alex Iantaffi:mono mono mono mono and I it was
Nicoz Balboa:a period of my younger time I was a very very COVID Circle law you do not say I used to go to risk taker Yes, risk taker going to the right party taking drugs Uh, sorry for people. I don't do This anymore a look it can be maybe not very fun to hear this. But it was long time ago. So all is good. But at the time, at that time I got, I wasn't very good in my myself, my life. So I did this. And I saw this, the mono eating is very hard I was I got to the hospital. And I was like, like these, and they got my leave my leave to just take a blood test and my mother was there and was like, and at the time, it was like 1998 and a big forearm tattoo was a big deal. Oh,
Alex Iantaffi:absolutely would be a big deal. And
Nicoz Balboa:I did like I did it for this. And I was like, I'm getting tattoo here. So I will never go work in an office or in the bank or I don't know, I this this kind of statement. And now for example, in France, in my bank, there is a lawyer and the tools and so and anyway. And so it was a very big deal. And then I went and I work at in this tattoo shop in San Giovanni neighbor, the neighbor in Rome. And it was a very, very misogynistic. Absolutely. It's a
Alex Iantaffi:very male dominated industry needle. Yeah, like, Yeah, that. And
Nicoz Balboa:then I went living in Paris, like the year one of two year later, and I remember I was working at tattoo shop, and I was doing just the piercing but also like, needles, the time you need to sell Daddy, how do you say,
Alex Iantaffi:Oh my God. The word is still the least escaping me. soldiering. I think it's called soldiering or something.
Nicoz Balboa:of taking the appointment and in the me I was I were working there, but while doing an illustration school, and so I was drawing and doing piercing in the shop and I got a tooth and I wanted to start doing but at the time, that was what was misogynistic, not open at all to different styles, it was these kinds of styles, there is no illustration or strange themes. No, this way. And I remember once telling I want to start to I would like to start. And at the time, people perceive me as female as a young girl. And this. This tattooer was there. It was all about this guy was horrible. Like the guy would go to do sport combat. Came back to the shop, we wanted to demonstrate on me, I yesterday, we learned this and this and I was like, Oh, please don't. Don't hurt me. And it was like, and then you say, female canta to because female is very small. And that doesn't have the strength to do the to do that is not true? And see Oh,
Alex Iantaffi:that is so not true. It's like that's ridiculous.
Nicoz Balboa:So it was very strange. And but then it were about a moment. Like it was 2001. And there were few that were in France that started doing things that wasn't that we're all but was very illustration style. It wasn't the case for Italy, Italy. Or this was very, very good at traditional tattoos. But it wasn't still very open to illustration in tattoo. And any took me like more than 10 years before starting doing tattoo. i i The moment I said, Okay, you know what, I don't give a fuck. Sorry for that. I was like, I don't care. I want to do this. And in the meantime, the Society of the two in the world of the three Act changed a little. But I realized that I feel like 20 and more 25 years later, I still have this imposter syndrome. Not like when I talk to I always said, I don't have impostor syndrome, you know, something, something I don't have. And once I realized that maybe a few months ago, once I was tattooing and I realized that every time I talk to I always think And now somebody will arrive and see me too and say, and realize that I am not able to total will see that I can't do it. And when I see myself from like, from above or doing this and it was like, actually, this is the big impostor syndrome and I, now I don't have it anymore. And also, I don't care. But I realized that I have this pressure of okay, my lines, I have to be perfect my colors and my shading, and I have to prove that I'm, like, something that is difficult to debunk. And, of course, yes,
Alex Iantaffi:that makes sense. I have a I have that with writing, every time I write and, or a new book comes out and people are like, are you excited, and I'm like, I feel like I'm gonna bomb it. I'm so nervous. Because now everybody's gonna see that I can't write to or they're, or they're not very smart, or that somehow, you know, it feels like it's exposing, because then your work is out there. And in a way with tattoos, your work is out there to once it's on the skin. It's on the skin. Right? You you've put it out there, and it's permanent. And so I'm so happy to hear you say like, I saw it, and I let it go. And but it takes a lot of work to do that. Yeah.
Nicoz Balboa:Yes. Being very vigilant, even though vigilant evoked me a energy of like being like this, but like witness of what I'm talking and just realize, okay, it's the scary one again, that told in my mind, the one we're, as he's afraid of this random that were from 20 years ago, the guy I now I realized that he was like, our rebar. And you're always smells like, you always smell you always. So I don't care about him. He was like, the guy go to the gym, and then come and don't wash himself and then try they their combat team on me. And misogynistic. And why am I afraid of what this person that I never seen any more things? Yeah.
Alex Iantaffi:Because we internalize all those messages, when that's where that Italian, especially from Rome, Rome, match it up? Stick, it can help. Because it can be like, hang on a minute, right? Why is this person having power over me, right? That I love. So much of your story is really about pushing boundaries, following your gut, following your heart following what you want, right? And what you know, to be true for yourself. I know, we're almost out of time. But one thing I haven't asked you, which I really want to ask, because I think it feels so close to, you know, my own experience. And in some ways, it's like, how did he go coming out as trans with your Italian family? Because that was definitely I think, like, I mean, I guess coming out of strands was on top of a lot of coming out for me at that point. You know, it's just one more thing. But I wonder what it was like for you
Nicoz Balboa:to say one more thing that I did the black sheep of the family.
Unknown:You're also the black sheep of the family, sheep of the family that doesn't live close
Alex Iantaffi:to their family buys in another country? Yes.
Nicoz Balboa:Yes. It's all the same. And it's so it's fun, because more than one time, even when I was like, coming out in my sexuality, I had people not from my family, but sometimes people from Italy that use the fact that I had a daughter as a leverage, like, yes, please, you have a daughter. And I was like, especially because I have a daughter I want to be very good. Very well and teach error that you can be yourself. And and then my family it was very fun. I don't know. It was a strange time because like, before I came out, I guess. It was like the summer of 2020. I started the my social transition coming out to few people but couldn't manage to came out. Really official because what happened? So I had my paper from the therapist, they say, Okay, you have the the validation of the dysphoria,
Alex Iantaffi:you've done enough therapy.
Nicoz Balboa:Or you can do it. Okay, and I get this and so I feel I felt safe. came to came out came out to come out to people around me. But then I went to the endocrinologist and then i She was my first endocrinology was a mess anyway, from somewhere I get the the appointment in November. And so for me until I was and like, starting the testosterone couldn't manage to say to because now I realize it was not, but at the time it was like, okay, like, I didn't want to jinx it in some way. It's crazy to say this, but no,
Alex Iantaffi:it makes sense.
Nicoz Balboa:And, and also, don't do this at home. But I started this testosterone before because my friend gave it to me. And it was like, I was like doing very micro dosing just to feel like I was doing it. And so then before so this official, I needed to have this final validation. I went in Rome for summer, and my family understand something that was something where was was going on. And it was very fun because my father, which is something he's very present and very love loving, at that time was like, couldn't cope with this. So it was like a little bit like, took the distance. And even though one one day we took me and we with the scooter and we weren't like all like gnanamoorthy style doing food. And then we take a coffee in in near Costa Santangelo, which is my favorite place. area I love. And it couldn't, it was something I couldn't process it because and I couldn't express it because I was protecting my identity. And I couldn't manage to say it's like this no big deal. And it was like very defensive. So the communication communication wasn't very good. I just remember that I felt this very big, big, big euphoria in letting all my year, Haier grow. Where you come from Italy, and you are read as a female a year is a very big deal. It is. It is. And my father was like, What are you doing? You're letting yourself go You were on. And I couldn't manage to say no. And, but in the same time, my mother, we were at the seaside. We were with my daughter at the need to know, the seaside. And my mother started telling the story of when she was pregnant with me. And everybody and in 1978 and 79 people, we add ultrasound but not very good. And everybody say ah the belly is is a guy is it's a boy.
Alex Iantaffi:It's a boy. Yeah, the shape of the belly. Yes, that's the thing. Any of that is a
Nicoz Balboa:boy. And so they they had this the name ready for the boy? And then they think. But if it's a girl, what we would we do, and they were watching television, and there was this unusual creature. I don't know if something that in US existed at the time. One person that goes in the television and say, tonight the movie is this and
Alex Iantaffi:make the announcement literally.
Nicoz Balboa:And Nicoleta of Samantha so they were like, but also inequality is a good name. And so my mother told the story of when she delivered deliver, I don't know the delivery app, and they say my father was in the room and said Nicoleta and my mother was like, It's impossible is jumeriah was the it's impossible we say this about and they said no no, it's a girl. And she tells she told the story to my daughter and she said like this and then she said if so she told me it's impossible it's a boy you know it's a girl No it's a boy. And then she ended the story is telling turns out I was right.
Alex Iantaffi:And so your mom could see you and like open the door for your coming out that's so beautiful.
Nicoz Balboa:At the beginning was like this. But then what happened the moment I came when I came out, the situation changed. My mother said okay, I realize it's like these because even you know your grandma bought you. This pair of ladies jeans when you and they say people say that it was afford the boy and your grandma said, I don't care. So she was very aware of my identity. And in the meantime, when I came out, she was like, Don't do it. Don't do it. Don't do operation. Don't do it. It's very difficult. It's don't do this. And then she couldn't. I guess it she was afraid. God, I wonder if she was scared. Yeah, she wouldn't care. And then my father. The thing is that for a long time, did as didn't, this didn't exist, I didn't see anything. I had to pay out more and more. And one day I say to him, I love you, Tom so much. But when you do this, for me, it's impossible. So right now, I have to cut the bridge of communication with you, not out of I don't love you. But because of protecting myself, of course. And then for a long time, we didn't engage in conversation, and then maybe and then we start again. And one, one time, I called him, and it was a play is read, retired, is a retired, but he plays tennis every day, big tennis fan. And so I called him and he goes as his tennis club. And he answered he say, Oh, my son, my son, and it was like, and so like it, maybe because I was far away, living abroad since 20 years, and over 40. And so I didn't have the pressure of maybe somebody who's younger, who came out at home and all sorts of different things. I was able to set more boundaries that so my father come, then come on the wagon, I don't know to say
Alex Iantaffi:this comes on board. Yeah.
Nicoz Balboa:But my mother was the one who was supporting since the beginning, but then couldn't manage to, to gender correctly and everything. And then it was last year, we had Christmas. And we had some part of the family that I didn't know it was like the family of the the husband of my sister. And so there I say I see in front of my mother and I say okay, now, I don't care if you call me the collector, it's It's okay. I don't I guess in since I transition very late in life, and I don't feel like as a dead name. I own a yawn, or my old name and a lot of it in some way. Because this old person bring me brought me here. Yeah, but so I say to her, but when you do this in front of people, you put me in the spot of telling my my story to people I don't know, that maybe can be also put me on unsafe situation. Exact so now you this, you have to do something. And she was like, what, what do I do? And I was like, you know? And so it was a little bit of parenting my parents, but also Yes. Anyway, it's, I will say for in my life, so I wasn't in danger, you know. And, but all the rest of my family, so to speak, to finish what you asked about coming out in Italy and the rest of my family. They were so cool. I have this group chat with the my father side and I came out with a drawing with something Roth, everybody was like, okay, am I causing causing was like, Ah, so cool. Because I had all female cows in I was tired of being the only one. And so, for me, my Italian family, they were mostly very cool from the
Alex Iantaffi:beginning. Yeah, that's amazing. And I think also, I mean, I know it's still really hard for people to come out. But what's interesting is also to hear like, the acceptance but ignoring like my family did the same thing we know but we're not going to talk about it. We're not going to acknowledge it for a long time. You know, I remember having a similar conversation with my mom when she took me and my daughter on holiday in Calabria because I usually always took her with me when I was Traveling and she was like, I want to take your knowledge and then I was like, Mom, you're gonna put me in danger if you like keep like gendering me incorrectly. And she's like, but nobody thinks I'm a man. I was like, first of all, you don't know what people think. Yeah. Second of all, I was like, this is not just about you. It's about how I move in the world. But again, that it was so hard for her to hear, right, because but, but then like, my schoolmates from high school, they have a group chat, you know, we reconnected and they were like, what's new? And I'm like, Well, my gender. And everybody was really cool about it. I think there's just a different awareness that's happening. You know, there was no, I never seen a trans man, then you are growing up in the 70s or 80s, in Italy. So now I think it's very different. Yeah, it's still difficult, but different than it was 20 or 30, or 40 years ago.
Nicoz Balboa:Yes, I guess it's the more you have an example. And the more there is this ripple effect. And so, but the So the funny thing is, like, as you say, but for my mother, for example, was like, you're at the restaurant, and the waiter come and my mother is like, okay, for me beer and for my daughter, a co worker or something like this. And the first time the summer they look at me, they were and it was like, you know, when you you say for my daughter and people see me and maybe I am not shaved and it's on you Miko. Maybe people think that you talk like, that comes like yeah, people think
Alex Iantaffi:you have dementia. Like I said that to my mom. I was like, you know, the more I transition, the more you're gonna look really awkward when you say this, because people are gonna be like, What are you talking about?
Nicoz Balboa:And share one last thing about Icarus I, I went, it was like one year into my transition. And I went to Torino. I got invited, because my book play with fire won an award for given by the Torino pride that it was so cool. And I arrived and yet this person that organized this, that was a trans man, and he came with these two partner that are cisgender man. And so I, especially when you are at the beginning of the transition, the more you connect with trans people, and the more you feel a tone, you feel you can relax. And so then another trans man arrived, and we went to the restaurant together and then and for me, I look at them and with this big beard and and it was like all trans man. And one of them we're talking about this we're talking about that is murder say that my daughter. And so, I realized that this never ends also, once I watch a documentary on Marsha P Johnson. And there is the family was interviewed, that you may be Marsha P Johnson, your family will miss gender you will win. So now what I realized also because I do this group support for trans people in Rochelle, and once a month and once one every three months, we welcome the parents, the family, without the children without the route of not only children
Alex Iantaffi:without their their
Nicoz Balboa:the transplants people, only the family especially because so they have a safe space to say I don't give a fuck about gender, you know, they can verbalize it. And we are there to say we understand or we can engage. And so I realized with the this person in Torino talk about this mother or my experience now what you say are those family that we welcome and we listen, I realized that it's not transphobia is just parenting because it's like it's very difficult to upgrade the the the sight
Alex Iantaffi:loss word or how do you say, the gays, the
Nicoz Balboa:gays that you have on your own children, that it's already difficult to understand that your children is not to anymore? And he has their own life their own? You know, I do too and then also understanding that for parents For people that are not very gender aware that this is a thing and this is something that stays, I guess that make for me it make the pressure go off. And also okay, it's a parenting is not transphobic it's not against me. Parents they do what they can do with what they have in
Alex Iantaffi:the moment and is there for me I think about okay with my mom, because my that I came out as queer but that didn't come out as trans. He died just a couple of years before I came out as trans 20 years ago, 21 Did my dad died, yeah, 20 years ago. And then I came out about a strand started to come out about 18 years ago. And for me when I think about that, I think with my mom it sir Jeremy, it's all mine. Right? I can share information. She knows a lot of trans people. Now she's read some books, right? But there has to be a journey when she's ready. And there is nothing I can do to like, change somebody else. Right? For me, it's like what do what what can I control, I can control me. My emotions make myself happy. It doesn't matter how much of a man I look or a woman, whatever. In terms of what I'm trying to do. Other people are gonna see me through their filters and their filters or not my filters. I don't know if that makes sense. But for me, I've just been really focusing on like, what feels authentic to me. Because, you know, and of course, considering safety and everything else. But you know, depending on the environment of bad Yes, I can. I can make my mom say the right name or pronouns, I can only explain what it means to me. And then it's up to her if she you know, it's an invitation. That's all I can do. I can control it. I can set boundaries, but there's not much else I can do. Exactly. Yeah. Oh, I feel like I could have this conversation all day. But I want to be respectful of your time. I always ask is there anything we haven't talked about that you were hoping that we would talk about Nico
Nicoz Balboa:I guess we talk about pretty a lot of things I don't think I have something that come to my mind. It was very very cool to talk to you a pleasure honor like as I said at the beginning and it was very fun because I felt as you say the remember before or after we started the recording I felt like we are like we know each other since forever. So it's very good and it's cool. It's
Alex Iantaffi:thank you and thank you because I know it's not easy to do interviews in a in a language that you don't use every day so thank you for doing the interview in English and I feel the same like you know you're such a amazing tattoo artist artists you know graphic artists you're beautiful award winning you know graphic memoirs out there so I feel really honored but it's same like we met on social media and with like you know tech you know message today on Instagram, but I feel like we know each other maybe it's the generation the culture other No, but it feels really good. So I'm very very grateful. Yes, maybe we'll do a part two interview because I'm like I have more questions but Well, thank you so much for sharing your time with the gender stories listeners and dear listeners thank you for keep listening to gender stories. This is definitely a labor of love. I do get to meet some wonderful amazing people in that process such as Nico and please do check out Nicholas work, you can support him on Patreon. And all those links are going to be in the episode description patreon.com/graphic Journal Club. You can read this newsletter on substack Nico Balboa substack.com all those links are gonna be in the episode description. And of course, you can check out Nico's website or Nichols cowboy studio.com. And maybe one day I'll get you to tattoo me if you ever if I come to the States or I come to Rome I would love that. That's my dream Nico.
Nicoz Balboa:be so cool. Let's make it happen.
Alex Iantaffi:I love this one. We're like I just the the the trans love that I feel for my community and how cool we are. It's just like it's just strong. Well, thank you listener and until next time, take care of yourself. Be daring and dare to be your authentic self. There's a lot of joy wherever you are.
