Gender Stories

Navigating the world as a woman

June 02, 2018 Alex Iantaffi Season 1 Episode 5
Gender Stories
Navigating the world as a woman
Show Notes Transcript
Content warning: in this episode we talk about body image issues and sexual assault. In this episode, Alex Iantaffi interviews the formidable Erica Hanna, a speaker, video maker, activist and consultant, six time Emmy Award winner, Nobel Peace Prize Forum Social Media Ambassador, and Twitter personality for Minneapolis. Erica is the owner of Puke Rainbow, a business focusing on content strategy, video production, and education in these areas. She also raises funds for nonprofit @charitywater through social media and she has worked with Ellen Degeneres and Prince. We discuss topics such as being a video maker, running your own business, body image, visual diet, and sexual violence. You can find out more about Erica's work at http://www.pukerainbows.com/ or follow her on Twitter @meetericaSupport the show

Instagram: GenderStories
Hosted by Alex Iantaffi
Music by Maxwell von Raven
Gender Stories logo by Lior Effinger-Weintraub


Lyrics from musical introduction: There’s a whole lot of things I want to tell you about. Adventures dangerous and queer. Some you could guess and some I’ve only hinted at. So please lend me your ear. 

Narrator: Hi! Just a heads up that in this podcast the topics of sexual assault and body image are discussed. Please be gentle with yourself and know that if these are difficult areas for you, there are plenty of other past and upcoming episodes to check out. Thanks.  

Narrator:Everyone has a relationship with gender. What’s your story? Hello and welcome to Gender Stories with your host, Doctor Alex Iantaffi. 

Alex:Hello and welcome to another episode of Gender Stories. I am thrilled to be interviewing my good friend and speaker, video maker, activist and consultant Erica Hanna. She is a six time Emmy Award winner, a Nobel Peace Prize Forum Social Media Ambassador,  she’s been voted Twitter personality for Minneapolis she is also the owner of Puke Rainbow, a business focusing on content strategy, video production, speaking, and also offering educational workshops. And in her spare time which I don’t think is that spare really, she raises funds for nonprofit @charitywater through social media and she has worked with people such as Ellen Degeneres or Prince so I am incredibly intimidated as well as incredibly excited to be talking to you today Erica. Anything I missed in my introduction? 

Erica:No I think you’ve covered it. I also clean up a lot of cat puke, you know. 

Alex: You have a lot of skills. 

Erica: Yeah that’s my number one skill probably.The most practiced thing that I do on a daily basis. 

Alex:See you learn something new every day about the people you know. [Both Laughing] So Erica I know there’s a lot of different things we’re going to talk about because you are involved in so many awesome things, but I would like to start from you telling me a little bit more about what it’s like to be a woman in business especially owning your own business now and being in film, and also you’re very open in public on social media and sometimes that can be its own thing too. Being a woman on social media it brings certain responses so let’s kind of start from there. How does that sound? 

Erica:Sure! Absolutely! So being a woman in film is pretty challenging, it can be challenging at times. Most of my crew, in fact all of my crew except for one person is cisgendered men and they’ve been in the business for thirty plus years. And they’re fantastic they absolutely are wonderful and know what they’re doing, but you know the percentage of female directors in the business is in like the single digits, you know for percentage-wise. So it’s just not something that people are necessarily used to. And that was very evident on [laughs] my shoot with Ellen actually when one of her millions of assistants walks into the room right and walks up to my boss, a middle-aged cisgendered man and said “Oh this is some of the best lighting I’ve ever seen, one of the best filming setups and we’re so excited that you did this” and he had to be like “Um, that was Erica our Executive Producer today, she was in charge of the setup.”  

And on top of that not just being a woman but also being an overweight woman, people will talk to me like I’m stupid and they’ll raise their voice like “Do you understand?” [laughs] Like just because I’m fat doesn’t mean that I don’t know how to do my job. Or that I become invisible you know, and that’s happened before. Not so much with my crew but I have other companies in town that will hire me out to direct or people that come in from other cities and I’ll be like “Hey we’re gonna do it this way” and they’re like “Um naw I don’t think that’s a…” and then one of my crew members will have to say “Yeah, we should listen, we should listen” and that kinda makes me mad that it has to take like someone from the opposite sex standing up for my idea.  

Alex:Yeah that’s just not ok. It’s basically like “Oh a man has said it so now it must be ok”. 

Erica:I know I know! And there was even things at past jobs I’ve had where as a director you want to learn everything, just so that you can communicate with your crew better and I remember saying “Hey I’d love to go to this lighting workshop that’s coming up in town so that I can speak the lingo better and do that” and I remember my boss saying “Yeah, let’s just leave that up to the guys, like the guys can do that” and I was like “Well, but it would make me a better director to know how to do it. LIke I’m not saying that I need to do it all day but why wouldn’t I want to learn the terminology” [laughs] Yeah like so it’s definitely frustrating.  

Alex:I wonder, was that part of what motivated you to start your own business eventually? 

Erica:Yeah so starting my own business came from um, I’ll be completely honest about that I haven’t talked about this much publically, so it actually was because I was going through some harassment at a job I was at. And um, my mentor at the time slash therapist said, um I went to him and said “Give me something, give me acupuncture, give me something like to make me calm down.” and he said “No, what you need is to quit and I’ll help you write a business plan because I think it’s time and that will be your treatment next week. After you quit I’ll help you write your business plan and we’ll get you going.” Which I thought was incredibly generous and a little pushy but that’s ok. [both laugh] Sometimes we need that right? And that was right after I had done my shoot with Prince and nearly puked on him so like my imposter syndrome took over big time and especially being the only female in the room then as well and being pretty young. Prince looked at some of my work and he was shaking his head back and forth in the No direction like side to side and he said to our executive producer who is a man “I thought you said that she shoots video” and I was like oh my gosh what did I do, I messed this up so bad, like my reputation is ruined. And our executive producer is like yeah she shoots video. And he said “From now on tell people that you create art, you don’t shoot video”. And I was like “What?” and I almost threw up on him again for a different reason because I was like so excited. And that was just a really great lesson in imposter syndrome that like I really thought he was gonna kick me out of his house and it was just some validation so that’s why when I’m teaching workshops about video to people I always say like “Don’t wait for a superstar to validate that you can do this on your on, like you can everybody can do it it just takes believing in yourself”.  

Alex:Although it probably helped a little to have Prince validate you. [both laugh] 

Erica:It did I’m not gonna lie! 

Alex:That’s an amazing memory! May he Rest in Power, I just love Prince and that could be a whole other episode just about how Prince’s gender has been so influential for myself at least as an 80s child. I diverge. So you said a little bit about partially starting your own business was because of the harassment that you were experiencing and that harassment hasn’t stopped you from being really outspoken about a range of things on social media including your work. And I wonder if this could be a good segue into talking a little bit about what is it like to be that outspoken and visible on social media. 

Erica:Yeah so I think that it’s a constant learning experience being outspoken and vulnerable. I speak mostly about being a sexual assault and rape survivor and I kind of learned the hard way that I needed to start using more video to do that because if I post a paragraph of something people assume I’m like on the verge of losing it you know and they’d send me all these worried messages. So I started using video while talking about most things related to that just so people could see that hey I’m holding it together I'm just being honest and putting this out there right now. So and it’s interesting because I think you and I talked about it seems like it’s like one gender is the predator right like that right now and that’s what I always thought growing up that’s what I thought because that was my experience as a young teenager. Four of my assaults were cisgendered men and I felt so safe like with any woman. And also I was feeling safe because I was insulating my body by gaining weight right, so almost erasing any gender by becoming invisible because people don’t like to give fat people eye contact. For some reason they’re almost like ashamed to do that. 

So it was kind of a wake up call when I was at my heaviest weight and I was assaulted by a female and it opened up this whole thing of Woah I was totally wrong - this could happen to anybody, from anybody of any gender. And I don’t want to say that was like a great learning experience, obviously not, but definitely eye opening. And then just being a survivor online you get criticized a lot, you get rape threats and death threats because people are afraid of vulnerability for some reason or like of hearing truth? But the nice thing is to be surrounded by other survivors who are also very public about it. So to have those people to lean on and to say hey, this happened and they’re like yeah no whatever you’re good. Some validation in community. 

Alex:Did it impact your sense of safety in the world though? Cause you said though you felt safe with other women before and now you’re like this is no longer a guarantee, which I would guess it’s a real shaking up of your world in a lot of ways and having to find your ground again literally in a different way than from previous assaults.

Erica: Yeah I became extremely agoraphobic after that happened and didn’t leave my house for ever. And then after doing some research found out that’s pretty common for assault survivors. It doesn’t make it any easier and even now when I get really stressed out about something I find it coming up again and it’s something that I always… I’m not gonna lie, I always thought it was really weird when someone would say I'm agoraphobic and I’m afraid to go outside and I was like what are you afraid of? Like I would never say that to somebody's face but I would like judge you know I definitely would judge internally. And now understanding that when you - it’s like you hit this force field like almost when you open the door you’re like it could happen again it could totally happen again if I step outside but in here I'm safe and Im with my cats that are puking and it’s ok I can deal with that. But yeah yeah, so that’s definitely a hue part of my life in trying to overcome that in therapy. 

Alex:And you're very open about that. I think May is Mental Health Awareness and you’ve been really open in talking about how you’re impacted in terms of your own mental health by those experiences and they’re really dismantling of stigma because we often have this kind of weird duality either people are well and successful or they have mental health issues. You know you can be amazing and successful and also really impacted by your trauma because you’re human.

Erica:Absolutely and I think that’s really important too. A lot of people when they’re going through trauma by themselves they don’t know that. Or they’re thinking like I’ve just lost it. And to be able to say like Hey I'm still making it but that doesn't mean you know that I don't’ have a crap day every once in a while or week or a month like you know? But that’s ok, I'm surrounded by an army I feel like that’s ready to help.  

Alex:I love that. And I wonder how much of that is about gender too, because often just women being women or femmes being femmes is like unprofessional perse - anything that has to do with womanhood right? There was this thing on Twitter yesterday where two professors took their children to a lecture because daycare had closed unexpectedly and one of them in their feedback it was “unprofessional” and the other “a great parent”. Now let’s all guess the gender of those professors right? So literally being a woman is already almost synonym for not being able to be professional for some people and then kind of this being open about mental health issues can be seen as a weakness which is often conflated with femininity again. I think you do this amazing job of showing that you’re a multi-faceted human and that you should not be dismissed based on your gender or your experiences all of that.  

Erica: Thank you, I appreciate it. I think that it took a while to find my voice and I still find that it evolves depending on the more you’re in the space of activism the more you’re learning. And I think  that if you're talking too much you aren’t learning enough you know. But I think that once you find it you can stand up and go no nope I can do my job and I can cry all day on Saturday if I want to and that doesn’t make me any worse at my job it just means that I… or it means that I can do my job and I can go to therapy twice a month or twice a week or whatever I need and I talked about that yesterday a little bit about this perception that that’s weakness. But really I look at it as a strength. It’s hard to face your demons right, it takes work. A lot of work. And I think that’s true for all genders. It’s something to be applauded, anyone who is just doing the work I think it shows a lot of personal awareness.  

Alex:Absolutely. And I know how intentional you are about taking up space. Even today you were like “I feel nervous even being on this podcast. Should I even take up the space?” And I was like yes you should absolutely take up the space. You were one of the first people I thought about when I started this podcast. Partially it was like A. All the stories that are out there but also the amazing array of community folks and friends that I have that have incredible stories like yours.  

You talked a little bit about activism. And one of the ways in which you’ve done this is also the Visual Diet Diversity Facebook group. I know it’s been really good for my own healing around body image. I’m a survivor of various eating disorders as well as living with Complex PTSD which I’ve been increasingly open about partially because of your work and your openness. So I wonder if you could say a little about your work around the visual diet diversity and how it started and why you’re doing it. 

Erica:Yes! So I saw this incredible TED Talk by Lillian Bustle. Where she talked briefly in the TED Talk, it’s mostly about her being a burlesque dancer, but briefly in the TED Talk she touches on visual diet and how “average” whatever average means. Average sized people at the beginning of the study all said I like average sized people you know that’s what I’m attracted to and then over the course of I think it was three to six months they were shown pictures of people who had a BMI of over 28 or under 18. And at the end of the study, of course we know what happens, they swayed to whatever group they had been seeing those pictures of the most. Oh I’m attracted to this person in a lineup then.  

So I sat back and I thought I think intentionally I could put more plus-sized models and stuff in my feed and then I thought maybe taking that a step further because we’re afraid of what we don’t see and what we don’t understand right? Sometimes it’s just a matter  of seeing more than once something so that you understand it. I talked to my friend Nosheena who is president of Rise always says “How can I be what I cannot see” and I just love that. And so like the concept of seeing people no matter who you are or what gender identity or sexuality or religion or anything or race. Seeing people representative of things you might be aspiring to is awesome. It also helps us break down stereotypes so I love to invite people in the Visual Diet Diversity group to not only post pictures of people that they think are plus models or something or are embracing their bodies but also just different journeys you know. It’s so great to see. For example I think people posted is it Desmond is Amazing. 

Alex:Oh! The child who is a drag queen? They are amazing. 

Erica:And tells that entire story and I think the other day I posted something about it was like a picture of eight African-American male doctors cause it’s enough of seeing like these horrific tragic or  gangbanger images on movies that’s the only way they’re represented you know? And being especially aware of that, my partner is African-American that makes me a little more sensitive but yeah I think I always pull information from from a couple different Muslim sites like Muslim Girl. There was a great picture we had the other day of a Muslim woman in her hijab surfing. 

Alex: It was so cool! 

Erica:Yeah! I think it changes your perception of everyone.  

Alex:I think that’s what I love about that group is that there is such a broad range and there are videos of like dancers of all sizes and all genders and older people and younger people. And it’s really about can we celebrate the fullness of humanity because we are all so amazing and dominant culture feeds us this weird kind of pill and there’s so much more, you’re like I could have a full meal and they are giving em this like whatever it is. 

Erica:I think it breeds this like shame in people because we’re not what we keep seeing and I think the more we see “average” people. I’ve had a couple of friends say I didn’t realize how “normal” I was until being a part of the group, not that there is anything called normal, but I thought I was super overweight or I was super underachieving or I really wasn’t pretty at all or I really wasn’t handsome at all or I wasn’t graceful for people who were dancers. And just after seeing that, I started it for selfish reasons because that’s what really helped me in my journey going from I want to be invisible, I really want to insulate and gain weight so that I’m not a target and so I am invisible for predators back to ok how do I get some visibility in a safe way that makes me not feel completely exposed but still makes me feel confident. 

Alex:And I think what that group does is really expand the norm. When you said your friend said I feel normal, it’s because if the normal is the norm, the norm is so much larger than we’ve been lied about. If it exists it’s part of the norm! 

Erica:Yeah! And I’m also from a small rural town and I love the opportunity to invite people like that into the conversation that way which I think is a non-threatening way of just some exposure. And it’s definitely started a lot of conversations and I keep it, I keep the group secret, not secret, private for a reason. I don’t want people to troll if someone posts a photo of themselves. But I approve pretty much anybody. 

Alex:I do love that. It does feel like its a fairly contained group. 

Erica:Yeah no business name scam thing or trolling you know! And there’s no skinny-shaming either. 

Alex:And I love that about you that you have this diversity of tactics: that this group is very welcoming and kind of educational for some people, more contained and not super public, but then you’re also super public about certain things and very fierce and clear and loud and kind of softer about others. You really have such a range in your work. 

Erica:I like to talk! [laughs] 

Alex:You’re really good at it! [both laugh] 

Erica:Again I think that’s why I default to video or podcasts a lot of the time because no matter what our mood, I think we can always read things in the mood we are in that day and especially if it’s some social justice or something we can read it in a defensive way or we can read it in an open hearted way and you almost take someone’s choice away when you are lending it your own voice. Cause you’re like hey this is my voice, this is how I’m saying it, I’m trying to say it in a way that’s really approachable let’s all join in it’s cool. Instead of like “I’m really angry about whatever” and don’t get me wrong, anger has a place for sure so it’s not like that there’s right or wrong but how I want to control it that day. 

Alex:Yeah and you want to put your message out the way you want to put it out and knowing that it changes from day to day and there is power in that. 

Erica:Yeah I’ve done videos where I”m like bawling. It’s like “today sucks” and that has a place too! Which is interesting because I”ll get messages from people in the industry like don’t you think you might want to take that down. And my answer is if you really think that some company is not going to want to work with me because I was crying about being raped, then buh-bye to that company. LIke I”m good.  

Alex:And that’s amazing. And talking about amazing, you do all those things are there any things that I haven’t asked you about -any upcoming projects that you’re excited about or anything we haven’t touched on that you’re like I really wish you were going to ask me about this Alex? 

Erica:I guess I'm doing more speaking like keynote speaking lately which has been super fun. I still do the educational stuff about video which I love and those lightbulb moments are freaking fun you know, but then doing more keynote speaking about imposter syndrome and confidence and I just wrapped up a talk at a summit called “How to Use Your Voice to Get Shit Done”  

Alex:Nice. 

Erica:and that was super fun and I loved the inclusive atmosphere there. So yeah I’m looking to do more of that it’s very fulfilling and selfishly it’s very fulfilling. [both laugh] 

Alex:And you’re wonderful at it. You've created this for yourself and you’re only in your thirties, listeners can’t see you but you've done all of this in a relatively short amount of time which is amazing. 

Erica:Well I’m still learning and you know oftentimes when I speak to you I’m like “Alex, I don’t know I’m not sure how I’m supposed to say this” you know gender-wise and I want to make sure I'm being aware, like help me!  

Alex:And you’re always so awesome, when you ask those questions I’m like “You’re good! You’re on point!” 

Erica:I just want to make sure that being aware is more the point I guess.  

Alex:And you lift people up, which is what I really love about folks that are my friends that are in community together that we lift each other up. Just yesterday you connected me with another podcaster Shawn from Armchair Philosopher so you should check out his podcast too! There is so much work to do in the world and so much room for so many voices. You’re so expansive in your work that’s what I love about you. 

Erica:Well I think there’s room for everybody. I just always think that and anytime I’m asked about a competitor it’s always like “we all do things our own way. There’s room for everyone.” 

Alex:Right there’s so much work in the world. 

Erica:Yeah. So much work and it’ll all work out. 

Alex: Especially in activism. Absolutely. 

Alex:So if people wanted to find out more about what you do and your work, what’s the best way for them to find out more about your work or your company? 

Erica:So pukerainbows.com and then I have an email newsletter that goes out. Man I’ve been bad about that lately I just realized! 

Alex:It’s really good though I get it and I love it! 

Erica:And the other way is twitter, I like obsess about and live on twitter. It’s @meeterica like nice to meet you, not red meat. WHich is like a weird award because it’s like you have really good Nickelback jokes and cat photos and good for you for being addicted to the internet. 

Alex:You do have really good cat photos. [both laugh]  

Erica: I got three of them so crazy cat lady. 

Alex:Well thank you so much for coming on the podcast. I really appreciate who you are in the world in kind of every way and so yes, if you’re interested in finding out more about Erica head over to pukerainbows.com on twitter @meeterica. And if you’re interested in finding out more about gender generally, you can pick up the awesome book that (yes, this is the self-promotion part) Meg-John Barker and I wrote “How to Understand Your Gender: A Practical Guide for Exploring Who You Are” by Jessica Kingsley Publishers who also has an amazing gender diversity list. So you should also check out their gender diversity list in general and until then keep enjoying your gender and I”ll see you for the next podcast, thank you! 

[Ending music plalys]